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they still think people like even john boehner are too moderate. even though boehner is putting forward essentially the mitt romney economic plan as his supposed compromise with the president. that's not far right enough for a big chunk of the republican base. >> maria, let me play for you something one of the outcast congressmen tossed by speaker boehner said today. listen to this. >> it's not about principles. it's about blind obedience. dissent will not be tolerated, particularly conservative dissent. >> he was upset throughout that forum today. is conservative blogger eric ericsson, he writes this. conservatives must seek retribution or become the paper tiger. maria, what will the retribution look like? >> i think we're all a little scared of that. >> i am. >> right. but i think that let's be honest, i think what joy is saying is absolutely right. unless the republican party figures out a way to coalesce, they're only going to be basically a strong party in midterm elections. there's no way they are going to actually -- they actually reflect th
they still think people like even john boehner are too moderate. even though boehner is putting forward essentially the mitt romney economic plan as his supposed compromise with the president. that's not far right enough for a big chunk of the republican base. >> maria, let me play for you something one of the outcast congressmen tossed by speaker boehner said today. listen to this. >> it's not about principles. it's about blind obedience. dissent will not be tolerated, particularly...
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is this john boehner's caucus? is it eric cantor's caucus? negotiating with john boehner when he doesn't control things is not tenable for the white house, not tenable for john boehner. >> well, i guess in the beltway here where i am tonight and the micro, it's cantor or boehner, but the bigger picture, if the president succeeds in terming the country around on this whole obsession with protecting the rich and protecting no tax cuts, that's a big moment. possible transformative moment in where we are in american politics. krystal ball and richard wolffe, thanks for your time this evening. >> thank you, reverend. >> be sure to catch krystal on "the cycle" weekdays at 3 p.m. right here on msnbc. >>> ahead, he tried to get attention with a disasterous soup kitchen op, and now he wants to rebrand himself as someone who cares about the poor. we reveal paul ryan's makeover plans. and more on the box republicans are in and president obama's power play. senator barbara boxer of california joins me on that. >>> plus, it's the gop's worst nightmare com
is this john boehner's caucus? is it eric cantor's caucus? negotiating with john boehner when he doesn't control things is not tenable for the white house, not tenable for john boehner. >> well, i guess in the beltway here where i am tonight and the micro, it's cantor or boehner, but the bigger picture, if the president succeeds in terming the country around on this whole obsession with protecting the rich and protecting no tax cuts, that's a big moment. possible transformative moment in...
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let's talk about some of john boehner's plan, though. john boehner is not moving off of rates. he's stilling talking about loophole closures. do you believe you can accomplish what needs to be done on the revenue side and let's step plate democrats have to be more specific about us entitlement side. can you accomplish what you need on the revenue side just by flattening deductions and closing loop snoels. >> it depends on where you set the cap, but i think what's happening here is that the speaker has put on the table revenues, very specific number, $800 billion, a big number compared to where he was before. the president has said $1.6 trillion. well, i think the obvious agreement here is 1.2. split the difference. how you get that extra 400 is an issue. there are a lot of ways to do it. revenues is not a complicated part of this situation. what is really more complex is the issue of how you get the entitlements controlled because there's really been no substantive ideas put forward on that get to the numbers that you really need to get to. now, what interestingly enough what t
let's talk about some of john boehner's plan, though. john boehner is not moving off of rates. he's stilling talking about loophole closures. do you believe you can accomplish what needs to be done on the revenue side and let's step plate democrats have to be more specific about us entitlement side. can you accomplish what you need on the revenue side just by flattening deductions and closing loop snoels. >> it depends on where you set the cap, but i think what's happening here is that...
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john boehner still has one to bestow. the man who currently holds the house ethics committee chair is bonner. he said he doesn't want the job this time. but again, how is it going to be a woman? there are no republican women on that committee. so who knows. there have been no republican women on that committee in years. this one might even be more awkward than the last one that john boehner had to go through gyrations to fix. good luck on that, mr. speaker. honestly, the problem that republicans have in trying to appear diverse in their leadership is that they just don't have a deep pool of republican-elected women to choose from. there aren't that many. here's what just happened to make that worse. republicans already had like no women in congress. before this last election out of 241 members of congress, only 24 republicans were women. 24 republicans heading into the last election. after this election, they went down. they went from 24 down to 20. a net loss of four. today that net loss of four became a net loss of five
john boehner still has one to bestow. the man who currently holds the house ethics committee chair is bonner. he said he doesn't want the job this time. but again, how is it going to be a woman? there are no republican women on that committee. so who knows. there have been no republican women on that committee in years. this one might even be more awkward than the last one that john boehner had to go through gyrations to fix. good luck on that, mr. speaker. honestly, the problem that...
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let me underline again. >> yeah. >> john boehner's counter offer was pathetic. even the tea party groups are saying the counter offer was pathetic. this republican party in the house better show courage or it's going to be voted out of power two years from now. i want to see, at least, if you're not going to offer new revenue, you better offer a lot of cuts and they're doing neither. so you've got to blame both sides, but there's only one president. >> the president's going to have to do something big, i think, to get this done. he's not -- he's more power and sway than a lot of people including i thought he would have coming out of the election. issues like entitlement reform and new revenue, but he's going to have to do something big. there's been a four-year course of he doesn't get along with either party, doesn't make the kind of effort you're talking about. i don't think there's any doubt he's going to, particularly john boehner, find some human interconnection moment that says we're doing this. and that's when the tough part starts. because once there's a
let me underline again. >> yeah. >> john boehner's counter offer was pathetic. even the tea party groups are saying the counter offer was pathetic. this republican party in the house better show courage or it's going to be voted out of power two years from now. i want to see, at least, if you're not going to offer new revenue, you better offer a lot of cuts and they're doing neither. so you've got to blame both sides, but there's only one president. >> the president's going to...
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your web paper says that conservative groups rebel against john boehner. i believe it was just the last battle over the bush tax cuts, the headline was trying to herd cats referring to speaker boehner trying to get his party in line over the battle here. how much pressure is speaker boehner under? does he have real allies at this point, since it seems he's being pulled in multiple directions here? >> speaker boehner is under enormous pressure, and if he needed to have this vote with just his own caucus or conference, he wouldn't be able to get it done. to the vote in the house, i think for every -- i think there's more tom coles there than we know that won't speak up. >> why won't they speak up? are they waiting to see the next round of back and forth? >> well, that could be part of it, but also, they're a little bit concerned about what their constituents are going to say. they don't want their e-mail box bombarded by the heritage foundation. now you see two extreme views. i think you'll end up at the trillion dollar mark, and i think that speaker boehner
your web paper says that conservative groups rebel against john boehner. i believe it was just the last battle over the bush tax cuts, the headline was trying to herd cats referring to speaker boehner trying to get his party in line over the battle here. how much pressure is speaker boehner under? does he have real allies at this point, since it seems he's being pulled in multiple directions here? >> speaker boehner is under enormous pressure, and if he needed to have this vote with just...
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the american people do not vote for john boehner. you're dead wrong, and i'm thrashing you. >>> up next, some wishful thinking in john mccain and john kerry. watch how kerry stays out of this. he's not campaigning, and he's careful here. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. >>> back to "hardball." now to the "sideshow." at the kennedy center honors last night comedian ray romano paid tribute to david letterman but slipped in a bow to president obama. >> you want to win the world series. do you quit, you're down one game to nothing? no, you keep going. you keep going. do you quit when you're down 1-0 in debates? no. no. you keep going. >> that's true. this year's honorees included dustin hoffman, led zeppelin, and more. and the president spoke to them at a white house reception and pointed out a hiccup in his own speech writing process. >> we've got buddy guy sitting next to dustin hoffman. we've got dave letterman alongside one of the greatest ballerinas of all time. i don't think dave dances. i worked with the speech writ
the american people do not vote for john boehner. you're dead wrong, and i'm thrashing you. >>> up next, some wishful thinking in john mccain and john kerry. watch how kerry stays out of this. he's not campaigning, and he's careful here. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. >>> back to "hardball." now to the "sideshow." at the kennedy center honors last night comedian ray romano paid tribute to david letterman but slipped in a bow to...
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the american people do not vote for john boehner. you're dead wrong, and i'm thrashing you. >>> up next, some wishful thinking in john mccain and john kerry. watch how kerry stays out of this. he's not campaigning, and he's careful here. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again. medicare open enrollment. time to compare plans and costs. you don't have to make changes. but it never hurts to see if you can find better coverage, save money, or both. and check out the preventive benefits you get after the health care law. ♪ open enrollment ends december 7th. so now's the time. visit medicare.gov or call 1-800-medicare. [ male announcer ] yep, there's 8 layers of whole grain fiber in those mini-wheats® biscuits... to help keep you full... ♪ 45 bushels of wheat on the farm. 45 bushels of wheat! ♪ ...all morning long. there's a big breakfast... [ mini ] yeehaw! ...in those fun little biscuits. >>> back to "hardball." now to the "sideshow." at the kennedy center honors last ni
the american people do not vote for john boehner. you're dead wrong, and i'm thrashing you. >>> up next, some wishful thinking in john mccain and john kerry. watch how kerry stays out of this. he's not campaigning, and he's careful here. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again. medicare open enrollment. time to compare plans and costs. you don't have to make changes. but it never hurts to see if you can find better...
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>> john boehner's counteroffer was pathetic. even the tea party members are saying that it was pathetic. this republican party in the house pet better show courage or it's going to be voted out of power two years from. >> the president is going to have to do something big to get this done. there's been four years course of he doesn't get along with the party, he doesn't make the kind of effort that you're talking about. i don't think there's going to be any doubt that they have to find some interhuman connection moment na says we are doing this. >> let's get started. joining me is bob casey who is moderating the hearing on the fiscal cliff next week. sir, i start with the comparison of the two plans so everyone can see this. the gop plan through closing loopholes and no deductions and rate hikes, as we pointed out as exposed under the democratic plan. the republican plan includes more entitlements through republican reform and then eligibility age being raised than the gop plan including changes of social security not addressed
>> john boehner's counteroffer was pathetic. even the tea party members are saying that it was pathetic. this republican party in the house pet better show courage or it's going to be voted out of power two years from. >> the president is going to have to do something big to get this done. there's been four years course of he doesn't get along with the party, he doesn't make the kind of effort that you're talking about. i don't think there's going to be any doubt that they have to...
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given that, do you support the proposal put forward by john boehner? >> well, because the proposal is significantly amorphous, you could get those revenues through economic growth and we don't really have things nailed down, i don't want to talk about a hypothetical, but there is a danger that when you put revenues on the table, even revenues through economic growth, if you grew at 4% a year, reagan levels, instead of 2%, french levels or obama levels, you would net $5 trillion in additional revenue to the government, you could pay down all of obama's additional debt by higher levels of growth, not raising taxes. so there's a lot of money to be gotten from growth. how they do this, we have to see it written down, but because the obama administration and spokesmen have been so emphatic about all taxes and no spending restraint, all taxes and actually spend -- another stimulus, another solyndra stimulus program -- >> i don't think they've mentioned solyndra, grover, but i'm sure they appreciate your mentioning of it. >> they didn't? the whole idea of add
given that, do you support the proposal put forward by john boehner? >> well, because the proposal is significantly amorphous, you could get those revenues through economic growth and we don't really have things nailed down, i don't want to talk about a hypothetical, but there is a danger that when you put revenues on the table, even revenues through economic growth, if you grew at 4% a year, reagan levels, instead of 2%, french levels or obama levels, you would net $5 trillion in...
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. >> i feel almost sorry for john boehner. >> does john boehner have control of his caucus? >> will john boehner lead his sdmaukz. >> is he leading his caucus or will his caucus lead him? >> two party two is going to dwarf tea party one. >> this is embarrassing. >> he's the problem. >> he's willing to act like the election never happened. >> we're not getting anywhere. >> we're going over the cliff. >> it's the gop who has been short on specifics. >> i would say we're nowhere, period. we're nowhere. >> the same exact policies. >> this shows that republicans are really chicken hawks. >> you can't be serious. >> chicken hawks when it comes to reducing the debt. >> get serious. >> we're not getting anywhere. >> the path to nowhere. >> be prepared for the plunge. >> i would say we're know where know where. >> there's clearly a chance. >>> today, john boehner, eric cantor and paul ryan finally kind of sort of responded to the president's budget proposal, a proposal of their own that they were so unmarried to that they didn't put their names on it. they said the whole thing was er
. >> i feel almost sorry for john boehner. >> does john boehner have control of his caucus? >> will john boehner lead his sdmaukz. >> is he leading his caucus or will his caucus lead him? >> two party two is going to dwarf tea party one. >> this is embarrassing. >> he's the problem. >> he's willing to act like the election never happened. >> we're not getting anywhere. >> we're going over the cliff. >> it's the gop who has been...
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i do think it's an interesting window into the particular challenge that john boehner has. another interesting window is also happening where both sides laid out their plans, their initial starting point for the fiscal cliff negotiations. first read called both of the plans sort of playing to the base. the difference is that the democratic base looked at the president's plan and said it looked pretty good. the republican base is very split. for example, senator jim demint said speaker boehner's tax hike will destroy american jobs and allow politicians to spend even more, et cetera, et cetera. keep in mind where boehner started, that's not where they're going to end up. they have to go to the left, so he's going to have a problem on his hands at least from some parts of the party. this woenn't be the end, either. immigration is probably next. that's another tough pill for some republicans to swallow, so this is going to be an ongoing saga. >> you're right that it is a very inside the beltway story, but it is sort of an important story in that we see how boehner has to deal w
i do think it's an interesting window into the particular challenge that john boehner has. another interesting window is also happening where both sides laid out their plans, their initial starting point for the fiscal cliff negotiations. first read called both of the plans sort of playing to the base. the difference is that the democratic base looked at the president's plan and said it looked pretty good. the republican base is very split. for example, senator jim demint said speaker boehner's...
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i saw john boehner in a pathetic effort to scramble out of it saying it was a status quo election. let me tell you f republicans won the presidency and gained seats in the senate and the house, they wouldn't be calling it a status quo election. they would be calling it a mandate. i'm particularly amused in kind of a frustrated way when they say, well, obama doesn't have a mandate to raise taxes. george bush cut taxes and started two wars with a minus half a million margin in the polls. barack obama has 3.5 million plus. so if 3 3.5 million plus isn't enough of a mandate to do something about taxes, what the hell was a half million loss? >> we're going to miss you congressman frank, barney frank ending an incredible career in massachusetts. we'll have you back again, if we can. >> i'll be around, chris. >> i want to ask you what you'll miss, positively and negative will from the congress. thanks for coming on tonight, congressman. >> you're welcome. >>> when we return, let me finish with whether the politicians who run the government will be able to do what's right, do what's necess
i saw john boehner in a pathetic effort to scramble out of it saying it was a status quo election. let me tell you f republicans won the presidency and gained seats in the senate and the house, they wouldn't be calling it a status quo election. they would be calling it a mandate. i'm particularly amused in kind of a frustrated way when they say, well, obama doesn't have a mandate to raise taxes. george bush cut taxes and started two wars with a minus half a million margin in the polls. barack...
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conservative blogger eric erickson on his blog writing on the same day john boehner, eric cantor and kevin mccarthy punished those for standing up for their convictions sold out their own convictions. erickson wasn't the only 0 group. calling it an $800 billion tax hike. the most conservative media outlets have been in boehner's camp, conservative organizations have a lot of sway with some members. bane earp does not want a full fledged rebellion. a few things to keep in mind. number one, any thought boehner didn't believe he had more control over his conference this time than he did two years ago should be set aside. cantor and mccarthy having his back. he only has to worry if somebody is high profile were somehow to challenge his standing with house republicans. that's not the case. they were in concert on this. does it mean -- send a signal to the white house that this time what boehner says and negotiates goes though it may not be a majority of the majority but boehner is comfortable in the position that he's established. that said, how much is boehner helped by his proposal? his
conservative blogger eric erickson on his blog writing on the same day john boehner, eric cantor and kevin mccarthy punished those for standing up for their convictions sold out their own convictions. erickson wasn't the only 0 group. calling it an $800 billion tax hike. the most conservative media outlets have been in boehner's camp, conservative organizations have a lot of sway with some members. bane earp does not want a full fledged rebellion. a few things to keep in mind. number one, any...